1. Would it have been better to let her daughter know what was going on, instead of telling her that everything was all right, her father only sleeping? (par. 194). What do you think? Why does Elizabeth choose to do things this way?
2. Is there any evidence in this reading that Elizabeth really does/did love her husband?
3. Elizabeth thinks about how she never knew her husband, and that she and he were always separate, always apart, despite being married and having children together. Do you get the sense that the author is saying that this is how it is for human beings in general? Is he just implying that this is how it was for this particular couple? Or is he implying that this is just what Elizabeth happens to think and feel at this moment? Or can we not know? Even if there isn't evidence to tell us for sure, what is your opinion?
4. Explain as best you can the last sentence: "But from death, her ultimate master, she winced with fear and shame."
5. Comment on a sentence or phrase of the story.
14 comments:
I am going to try to answer number 3.
I feel that the author is not saying that all marriages and relationships are like Elizabeth and her husbands. I think that it is particular to the two of them, and who knows what the husband would have thought. Throughout the story the husband is never given a chance to defend himself, or to say how he feels. The only time he is physically present in the story is when he is brought back dead, besides that, he is an abstraction.
I feel that Elizabeth comes to this realization that she never knew her husband after he dies. I think if he had come back just harmed, or drunk she would never have come up with this idea.
I feel that it is something about death. When someone you know, or were at least physically close and intimate with dies, I feel it makes you come to some sort of conclusion. I think Elizabeth needed to try to find some closure or some reason for why she wasn't crying or grieving in the same way as his mother. Maybe she really wasn't close to her husband ever, that they really never knew each other, just lived together and had sex together. I feel that his death has brought upon a lot of emotions for Elizabeth and even if the emotions are not ones of love and loss, she still is having emotions. It is quite an emotional experience to learn that someone close to you has died, and I feel that she doesn't quite know what to do. She seems to try to be rationalizing the situation and I feel that confirming the distance between herself and her husband is one way of her doing this.
1. Would it have been better to let her daughter know what was going on, instead of telling her that everything was all right, her father only sleeping? (par. 194). What do you think? Why does Elizabeth choose to do things this way?
Adressing to question number one, I would have to say no,it would not be better to let her daughter know what was going on. I don't think the mother want to tell her right away the the father is dead. Who knows she might tell her daughter what happen to her father the next day maybe. The mother didn't tell her daughter because she don't want to ruin her duaghter's mood for the father's homecoming. Elizabeth probably chose to do things this way because she don't want to make the children upset since they are expecting their father to come home.
4. Explain as best you can the last sentence: "But from death, her ultimate master, she winced with fear and shame."
I think this sentence is quite profound. I enjoy the way the author makes "death" a almost human power. It is that master/ controller/ dictator of life. And that when she is faced with death she is not happy, strong, or confident. She is weak and scared of Death as she winces with the state of shame.
That "life is her immediate master" (as it says directly before) means it is the thing that controls her in the present, but she is aware that death- the idea, state, and power of death is ahead of her. There is no escaping. It says that she "submitted to death" which makes me feel as though she is happy and willing to partake in life- but not death.
All of this brought about by the death of another. I think it goes to show that the death or victimization of another can truly give/ feed another person a dose perspective on life.
4.) I'm going to attempt to answer 4. I think the last sentence, "But from death, her ultimate master, she winced with fear and shame." means she is scared to die. "She knew she submitted to life, which was her immediate master." Life is her master and death is her master. For now she is stuck living, but when the future brings her death, she feels uneasy about it. She is shameful because her husband died and she never really loved him as she prepares his dead body. Who will be there for her when she is dead? and will they really love her? Maybe she fears karma. She is unsure about her feelings because she is supposed to love her husband but all she can think about is how they never really were a whole. She struggles with morals and her true feelings. She doesn't want to be a bad person; she is too hard on herself. She must face the truth and realize that death is just apart of life.
I didn't see Miles post when I was typing mine, but I pretty much said the same thing. I didn't add this to my response, but Miles last statement is exactly what I thought!
Hey Everyone,
I am going to answer question number 1 today. I completly agree with Shenese that it is better she didn't tell the children what was happening. I think that if she were to tell the children so soon especially since she just found out the children would be very upset and shocked. The house would have been an emotional mess and I think that the whole house would be in chaos. I think it would be better if she waited until the morning and just explained that he died in his sleep because of some reason. She would need time to think it through and break it to the children easily, if she told them then none of them would be able to sleep and I feel like they would start balling and that would make the grandma start to cry hysterically also. I think she did the right thing by waiting to tell them becuase telling them at 10 o'clock at night wouldn't have been the prettiest picture. Plus the children all thought he was just drunk....everyone just thought he was drunk and would come home later. I think she did the right thing!
I agree with what Sarah and Miles had to say. Death has claimed her husband’s life and she shudders at the thought of it; however, she never knew her husband. She submitted to life because this is all she ever has. She did not die and death chose her husband. She has to continue to live for the holes to disappear; however, when she thinks about death, she only remembers about her husband and how they denied each other. She shudders at death for it opened her eyes into reality that they did not know each other. Despite this, they have lived and started a family together. Wouldn’t anybody else feel uncomfortable when you realize that you have been living a lie? It’s just the same way for Elizabeth. Death helped her escaped living a lie without Elizabeth ever realizing it. Now that he is gone from her life, she has to deal with the humiliation of not being aware of it. All she has now is to face life and deal with it, and in death, maybe she will face her husband or maybe not.
response to #1
I think that the mother's judgement is ultimately the best thing to listen to when dealing with children in a situation like this. If I were her and I'm sure most of us would agree, I would tell the children the truth because I would be afraid they would resent me for lying and it might even be harder on them if they were told later. Also, I would imagine it would be harder on the parent to lie to their child and have to explain later. However, she must have some motive for not telling them. It could be that she is in shock and telling them that every thing is fine is helping her believe that too. Because everyone else is helping her keep the secret from them by keeping quiet and keeping the mother-in-law quiet it must be a traditional thing to do in their community. Maybe in this society they felt children couldn't handle the sight of a dead parent and that they must be protected and sheltered or else it could traumatize them. She might be waiting to tell them because she just doesn't know how to say it to them and impulsively lied. It is difficult to put yourself in the mother's place and determine if what she did was right. A mother knows her children best and in this story it seems she raised them alone for the most part so she must know how to handle them during hard times. I wouldn't judge the decision she made to be wrong but I still question why she would prolong the bad news.
4. Explain as best you can the last sentence: "But from death, her ultimate master, she winced with fear and shame."
I think this was a really powerful and strange, yet fitting way to describe this story, which had very unusual and tragic events. I think this sentence was pretty much a sum up of the rest of the story. I think this because it talks about death (which occured with the husband), ultimate master (being the wife), fear (the children crying into the mothers dress) and shame (shame was displayed when the husband died. One thing I feel that should be added to this is the fact that even though the husband passed away, the wife did not seem to care very much and it did not seem to affect her in a very negative or lustful way. I think the adjective or aspect that should be added to this would be lust or selfishness. To wince, is to draw back or tense the body, and it adds on to the shame and fear being described. This unusual sentence can have many interpretations. I thoroughly enjoyed Miles' and Sarah D's interpretation about being profound and how she is afraid to die. I appreciate everyone's interpretation on this particular question and it helped me better understand this sentence as a result!
Thanks guys!
Mason
Hey,
"At last it was finished. He was a man of handsome body, and his face showed no tracesof drink. He was blonde, full-fleshed, withe fine limbs. But he was dead." That last quote describes the father from his mother's point of view. Contrary to his wife's reaction to this whole event the mother is extremely upset about her son's death. Anyway, the reactions of adults tend to be somewhat predictable, not always, but sometimes. Children, on the other hand, are hard to prejudge what they will do in a tragedy. Therefore, I agree with the decision not to tell the children what was going on and to lie and say their father is alseep. Not only is it much to hard for a child to understand the concepts of death but it is emotionaly much to devastating to lose someone so close to you. It is obviously a personal choice made by the mother but I happen to agree with it. Someday the children will be old enough to make the same decision for themselves.
Hello,
Regarding question three...
By her long monologue, it it obvious Elizabeth is speaking of her feelings of separation toward her husband. I don't really know if there is enough evidence to say Elizabeth and her husband always experienced this separation because there is really no background on their relationship before he is found dead. However, I do think there is something to be said for the fact that looking at his dead body, Elizabeth only thinks of separation. Though I have never personally seen someone close to me die, I feel that looking down at them I would try to remember the good things about them. Here, Elizabeth is only remembering the distance between her and her husband. I definitely think it is plausible this distance existed throughout their relationship. The main part of the story is Elizabeth searching for her husband and him being away. From how the children seem to feel and the fact that Elizabeth seems to know the first place to look for her husband, it would seem he goes away often.
Regarding whether the author thinks of this distance in all people's relationship, I am not really sure. I can see both sides to the argument. I feel that any relationship between two people requires some distance, in that being around another person for a long period of time can make one person find the other particularly annoying and irritable. However, it seems that Elizabeth and her husband have more than just a little distance in their relationship. I feel like this reflects on the love in their relationship. It makes me feel as if there wasn't any love between them. Even when Elizabeth was describing having sex with her husband, she said there was a detachment that resided there. It seems that there was not really any passion between them, or at least not any that is shown. That leads me to the conclusion that though all relationships require some distance, the relationship between Elizabeth and her husband was not a loving relationship, and thus, the distance between them does not necessarily apply to all people and all relationships.
Sorry, I know this is answering two questions but while I was reading a came across a short line that I really liked and I thought I would share it.
"When they arose, saw him lying in the naive dignity of death, the women stood arrested in fear and respect." I really liked this line because of the "naivety of death." When I think of naivety I usually relate it to youth, or childhood. With naivety usually comes an innocence and I liked that the author used naivety to describe death rather than birth or childhood. I feel that even though Elizabeth's husband was not innocence, it gave him an innocence and pureness, and sort of wiped away all the bad things he had done. Just wanted to share.
Have a good night!
Hello! I am responding to #5. The sentence I've chosen is on page 344. It reads, "Then she must have bent down and kissed the children."
I find this sentence important because I feel that it is a turning point in Elizabeth's perspective on the situation. It suggests that she is in a daze of sorts and can't quite explain her actions or remember what is happening. She remained relatively composed prior to the instance with her daughter, but after she returns to her husband’s body, she begins weeping. I think that as soon as she tucks her daughter back into bed, the reality of the whole thing hits her. She realized that she will eventually have to tell her children the truth, and therefore reality hits her. She begins to really process the situation, and she is finally able to actually look at her husband’s body. What she sees though frightens her, because she understands for the first time that she never actually knew him for who he was.
Anyways, I like that sentence because the third person narration seems to transform into Elizabeth's point of view for just a second. It gives the reader a glimpse of how dumbfounded and dazed she really is at such a traumatic time.
In response to number five. The sentence I'd like to discuss is on page 346. It says "there had been nothing between them, and yet they had come together, exchanging nakedness repeatedly."
This sentence to me, is quite depressing. Overall, I think the author is trying to say here, that love isn't a real think. It is a made-up notion in our heads, that doesn't actually exist. When a man and a woman come together to "make love" there really is no love between them but only the idea of love and the human tendency to search for love and be loved. It's so sad because the author has this idea that the only reason we come together again and again in utter nakedness, is to somehow satisfy ourselves. We want to be loved, because humans our naturally selfish creatures. Being "loved" makes us feel good and it is something that we want in life. Elizabeth is realizing that when one thinks they love someone, often there is nothing between them. There is just the need for the idea of love and the satisfaction of it being there.
Hi everyone,
I amanswering question number 1,
I think she did this to protect her daughter. I don't think it was a smart decision considering sooner or later her daughter will find out that her father is not just sleeping. I can't judge her actions though. I have no idea what I would do in this sort of situation. I know that this was probably a panic moment for her. She did not expect him to die, and she, herself, is going through a lot of grief right now. People have rational actions during times of panic or grief. This was a moment of weakness and in this particual moment it probably seemed like a smart thing to do. Thinking it over later, she probably saw that the truth would be better. However, from my point of view, her daughter is the last thing on her mind. Her husband has just died and aalong with the immediate grief she is facing, she is also handed a lot of responsibility in one split second. I don't agree with her, but I am not judging. LIke I said, she did what she thought was right.
I look forward to seeing what my fellow classmate have to say on this issue...
Thanks!
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