Kentucky Wonder beans
1. T or F: The basic problem the people have in this book is poverty.
OR
2. T or F: There is some evidence so far that this is a feminist book.
OR
3. On p. 66, women at Chicken's funeral feel that "the only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it."
T or F: pp. 67-78 seem to represent an argument that this statement ("the only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it") is true.
29 comments:
T There is definitely strong examples of feminism in this book. For example, the way many women are kind of seen as whores, like when Helene smiles at the conductor, shows how women were regarded. Also, the way Eva is treated by her husband shows a sad but true example of the little power women had at the time. "During the time we were together he was very much preoccupied with other women and not home much... and he liked womanizing best, drinking second, and abusing Eva third." This is a sad example of how helpless women were at the time, but Eva didn't exactly take it- she raised the family on her own after that.
T: The only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it is expressed in these pages. Bassed on Eva's thoughts about Sula's witnessing Hannah's death, it seems as though that was the central message surrounding Hannah's death. Also, by the way Eva was treated at the hospital: ("...they forgot Eva, who would have bled to death except Old Willy Fields, the orderly, saw blood staining his just-mopped floors and went to find out where it was coming from. Recognizing Eva at once he shouted to a nurse, who cae to see if the bloody one-legged black woman was alive or dead."). It seems to convey, that at least for some of these people, the only way to avoid the wrath of God was to indeed give in and "get in it". This idea is also marked by the subtle presence of feminism in this book, and how no matter how hard someone may be working to do their best (Eva with regard to raising and supporting her family), bad things still happen.
T/F: the basic problem people have in this book is poverty.
I do not think the basic problem is poverty, but I think it definitely strengthens other issues. It is obvious, as with most African Americans in the early 1900s, that Eva and her family have gone through poverty, but I don't think it's the basic problem. The family's relationships are all askew and some people are a tad crazy. I think the fact that life is a struggle makes their relationships even messier.
I agree with Christine, I am unsure that the basic problem that people have in this book is poverty. Yes poverty is a major underlying theme, especially when Eva is talking to Hannah about raising her children and never having very much. Also, one thing that sticks out to me is the vivid memory that Eva has in the outhouse with Plum. So I guess in a way that makes poverty the basic problem in this book but I also feel like the characters could act differently than they do even if they stayed in the same situation. I could not find a direct quote to really support the original claim. I think that a lot of this book is based in that specific time period, especially when Eva kept bringing up 1895, and there was a lot of poverty during that time but I think that the time period has a larger influence on the book.
I would say that feminism does play a part in this book. However it id done more by bad example than by the typical example. Rather than portraying women at their best and most successful selves, they are portrayed as mostly single mothers who have struggled through the tougher parts of life and in some cases have sunk into prostitution to keep themselves going. Their lack of true power and their recognition and complacency towards this lack of power is the predecessor to feminist movements.
I suppose that there is evidence that this could be a feminist book. Something big is that essentially every character who does something remarkable is a woman- like Eva risking her life continuously for her children. And like Julie said, this could have also been a commentary on how women were treated- like Helene on the train. Yet at the same time, if I were to describe the book to someone else, I probably wouldn't say anything about feminism. I feel that religion is a big part of the story, and also the idea of growing up and maturing is another central theme that keeps coming through. What's also interesting is how the author uses family backgrounds and generations to really show why each woman (or girl) is the way she is.
False. I do not think Sula is a book about feminism. I think it is a book about women. I interpret feminism as a philosophy who's major tenet is empowerment, the idea that women should recover the political and social power denied them in a patriarchal society. "Sula," however, is a book in which the major and suppporting characters are female. Thus, the book is experienced through a feminine psyche. This does not automatically make it a book about feminism. There is no doctrine to which it subscribes, and it is not making any point about the role of women. "Sula" portrays women in all different walks of life: prostitutes and church-women, strong mothers and silly girls, etc... None of them fit into a box, and each is rich enough to have a book devoted to herself alone. Because the people in this book are women, it is a book about the experience of being female. However, I do not think it is a "feminist book," just as it is not an "african-american book." It is just a book. I beautiful book.
I agree completely with Gabi, I think she made a really excellent point, and I too think that it's a beautiful book. : )
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T: THe only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it.
At the funeral the people are shouting and dancing to praise God and his existence. I think the reason they say that the only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it is because when we are alive we are mortal we always have the fear of death or getting hurt. But if you are already with God (dead) then you don't have anything else to fear. The only way to avoid fear and to get away from God's hand is to die. I think this not necessarily a good view or bad view but its true. It is also good to experience those fears and realities of life.
T. The basic problem in this book is poverty.
"What would I look like leapin' 'round that little old room playin' with youngins with three beets to my name?"
There are many problems in this book, but the "basic" problem is poverty. This quote displays that because it shows that with problems of outward appearance, "would I look like," and family, "playin with youngins" which are two big themes/obstacles in this book are affected by the fact that she was in extreme poverty only having "three beets" to live off of. So I do think that overall all of the problems stem from the extreme poverty that they are experiencing.
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The basic problem in this book is poverty: False.
I agree with Christine in that poverty is not the basic problem in this book. Racism is really a basic problem in this book and how women are treated as well. Maybe feminism is a problem or not a problem, but a theme in this book, but the central idea(s) Morrison is trying to convey is not poverty. Once again I concurr with Christine that poverty adds to these issues at hand. Poverty adds to the bad struggling lives the family has and regarding Eva. Racism is much more present as an issue. I do believe Poverty is not the central focus in this book overall.
Checking in...I really liked Sierra's connection to death because already so many people have died or been seriously injured
Neither true nor false: the basic problem the people have in this book is poverty.
The reason I think this is because it's not only poverty that causes problems within the central family, but also issues of race as well as the differences in people's characters that creates tension and conflict.
checking in and yeah nicely put Gabi
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at first i thought it was true that there was evidence of feminism in the book so far, but after reading gabi's argument i agree with her. while i think a huge part of the story is about women and their strengths, weaknesses, wins, and failures, i do not think, as gabi said, a "feminist book." I do not think that that is anywhere near the main premise for the story.
so far, we have seen the women, especially Eva, go through a lot, and i do not think it will stop anytime soon. I see eva as such an interesting and mysterious character. i cant wait to see more!
word, Gabi:)
F: pp. 67-78 seem to represent an argument that this statement ("the only way to avoid the hand of God is to get in it") is true.
"They swayed, for the rivulets of grief or of ecstasy must be rocked. And when they thought of all that life and death locked into that little closed coffin they danced and screamed, not to protest God's will but to acknowledge and confirm once more their conviction that the only way to avoid the Hand of God is to get in it."
I think Morrison is interested, in every sentence, in portraying how things really are. She is powerfully observant and acutely aware. In this case, she sees how things are for these women and states it, but it is not a whole message of the book or the passage. The book is made up of how things are.
Since there has been such an interesting discussion of feminism so far I feel we should keep the conversation going. So, according to the definition of feminism (in merriam-webster dictionary) it is the theory of political, economic, and social equality of the sexes; organized activity on behalf of womens rights and interests.
I feel that this is contrast to what Gabi said. After reading her blog I felt that I agreed with her, because according to her interpretation/feelings on feminism it is the empowerment of women. On one level I completely agree with that because the goal of feminism is for women to gain power and rights, however the goal of feminism is equality of the sexes as well, not just empowerment so that one day women will have more power than men.
I feel that "Sula" is a mix. As Gabi said, since the main characters are female, obviously the story is told from a female psyche and this does not necessarily mean that Morrison is subtexting the words with the thougt "Yeah gals! Let us band together and raise awareness and interest in the equality of women, let us gain power and stand up for ourselves!"
I know Mr. Durning that you said we should really try to chose either true or false when answering the question, but I'm not really sure I can put a finger on it, for depending on how you, as the reader, interpret feminism and its aspects, you may or may not find evidence of it in the text.
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True There is some evidence so far that this is a feminist book. The women always seem to be portrayed as the stronger and more powerful figures in the book. Eva's cowardly husband runs away, while Eva pulls together her strength and takes care of her family as well as making all of the decisions. Eva is the head of the head of the household making her a very powerful woman. The second major theme in the book is women always seem to be the one in power in relationships: Eva's power over her flock of admirers and Hannah's seductive powers over the men in the Bottom. Another major powerful female figure is Nel's mom Helene. She is the head of the family and manipulates her daughter and husband. Going back to Eva, Eva makes the decision to kill her son, because her son basically fails to become a man. While Eva jumps out of a window to save her daughter Hannah, the deweys do nothing and are interested in the tomatoes than in the dying Hannah. The deweys who are not very intelligent and seem to be only interested in themselves are an example of how males are portrayed in the book.
"The deweys came and stepped in the tomatoes, their eyes raked with wonder."
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I don't know if feminism is the right term, but this book surely has a lot to say about women.
I think it shows the little power that women had at the time, but most importantly, what they had to do to get through it.
All these women have some connection with the word whore, whether they were one or they trying their hardest to disengage themselves from such terms- it says a lot about the kind, or lack, of apportunities that these women had at the time.
by the way gabbi, this is exactly what we've been discussing and i absolutely agree!
it's a book about women.
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