a culvert
1. T or F: The paragraph on pp. 154-155 starting with "Christmas came one morning and haggled everybody's nerves" could be interpreted as an attempt to explain how difficult it is to be poor." and how attempts at
2. T or F: The sentence "The white people who came" at the bottom of p. 154 could be interpreted as an attempt to explain how charity can lead to resentment, not gratitude.
3. In the previous reading, Sula wondered if maybe in some way she had been "good." Are there any parts of the current reading that support that idea? Consider the ways things get worse after she dies; consider her role in Shadrack's inner life.
4. At the top of p. 157, an explanation is given for Shadrack's having said to Sula, after the drowning of Chicken, "always." Try to put the explanation in your own words.
5. The people in the spontaneous parade begin to smash up the tunnel that has started being built (162-163): in your own words--why do they smash it up or try to?
6. Discuss the connection between what happens at the tunnel and the fact that it is National Suicide Day.
18 comments:
I am answering question number two. I think that this sentence, "The white people who came," does not represent how charity can lead to resentment. The question was just referring to this one phrase and not the entire situation which I found odd, and it is false because there is nothing backing up this statement when the situation is not involved. I think charity can lead to resentment if you are not willing to forgive and forget.
6. Discuss the connection between what happens at the tunnel and the fact that it is National Suicide Day.
When I read the passage that was on page 162, I was shocked. I didn't really expect that was going to happen to the other non-important characters in the book, "Sula." The thing that happen in the tunnel is connected to the national suicide day because they died. That's sad. On page 162, there is a qoute that talks about Tar Baby, Dessie and the other characters about what happened to them. "Tar Baby, Dessie, Ivy, Valentine, the Herrod boys, some of Ajax's younger brothers nad the deweys (at least it was supposed; their bodies were never found)-all died there." I remember a passage on page 14 saying something about death. It was Shadrack that was talking to people in public about suicide day while ringing his bell. "On the third day of new year, he walked through the Bottom down Carpenter's Road woth a cowbell and a hangman's rope calling the people together. Telling them that this was their only chance to kill themselves or eachother."
3. In the previous reading, Sula wondered if maybe in some way she had been "good." Are there any parts of the current reading that support that idea? Consider the ways things get worse after she dies; consider her role in Shadrack's inner life.
Although Sula betrayed Nel, Sula had some aspects that contribute to her being "good." Sula had some influence in a way that she had been "good" despite the fact that people chose to detest her. In page 59, when Sula and Nel were young, they were playing with Chicken. Nel was teasing Chicken and Sula was telling her to stop picking on Chicken. She wanted Nel to stop because she was trying to show Chicken a tree. Also, in page 61-62 and bottom of 156-157, Shadrack recalls the time when he met a random visitor that stumbled to his house looking for help. Shadrack looked at her face and told her "always" as if he was comforting her from the sadness she was about to endure. He remembers in pg 156-157 that nobody dared to visit him and he was in epiphany that he was it was depressing to be lonely. When Sula came to visit him, he felt a tinge of happiness that subsided his misery. In page 153-154, Cider refused to eat the dish that included new ingredients and his mother, who did not chastised him after Cider fell in front of Sula, punished him. There were few other incidents were people were kind and protective to each other while Sula was alive; however, now that she was dead, they no longer treat each other with kindness because they went back to their normal ways.
2. T or F: The sentence "The white people who came" at the bottom of p. 154 could be interpreted as an attempt to explain how charity can lead to resentment, not gratitude.
I think that it is not the gifts that re causing the feeling of resentment, that i agree they have. I feel it is everything up to that point that has left a sour taste in the black peoples mouthes. That after all the horrible thing that have been inflicted upon them by the whites, how can they have the audacity to try and act appreciative of them with "rock candy." Like this candy is going to wipe away the slate of the negative thoughts formed form brutal actions, and everyone will start the year with a clean slate. It think the resentment ultimately lies in the thought of the black people who think "how thoughtful on the outside, but how can they think me to be so ignorant as to believe that they care?"
So true- they have resentment, but false it isn't the charity it's the assuming the black people are dumb and can have their loyalty, love, and work bought by rock candy.
Hey Everyone,
I am going to try and answer question 1. I think that this statement could be one interpretation of this paragraph. In these sentences it explains what christmas is like for the people of Bottom. The image that Toni Morrison has created is this image of a mother in the kitchen upset with the way her cake(s) has turned out because there isn't enough fire to make the cake(s) inflate to the correct size. The children are sitting around sucking on peppermints and oranges with the occasional interruption of a cough. Fathers are up in bed sleeping unaware of everything else happening. Typically, when someone thinks of a Christmas with family they think of everyone around the warmth of a fireplace and the image of children all around the tree waiting for the okay to start unwrapping their gifts. The idea of hot chocolate and singing songs out in the snow. Children playing with all their new toys while the adults sit around and watch with admiration. So when reading these paragraphs and seeing the image that has been created by Toni Morrison, it is appropriate to say that these paragraphs explain how difficult it is to be poor. These people are so poor they can hardly afford enough wood to keep a fire going, let alone buy gifts for their loved ones. It shows how money plays in with the idea of Christmas and the image people have. If you aren't wealthy enough you won't be having a tree surrounded with gifts of nice plump cake(s) to eat later on.
Hey
I'll be answering question #4 today. The paragraph that led up to Shadrack's "always" quotes: But when he looked at her face he had also seen the skull beneath, and thinking she saw it too-knew it was there and was afraid. He tried to think of something that would comfort her, something to stop the hurt from spilling out of her eyes. So, he had said "always" so she would not have to be afraid of the change-the falling away of skin, the drip and slide of blood, and the exposure of bone underneath. He had said "always" to convince her, assure her of permanency". To be honest, this paragraph, after having read it several times over and over again, it is incredibly touching. As it says, the word "always" was used to reassure her. But, of what was she being reassured of? I have been thinking and I have come up with this conclusion. The fact that she was constantly neglected and talked of and viewed as evil in her later years, he was fully aware of her status. Shadrack thinks the word "always" will reassure her and let her know that he is "always" with her and he will be with her through the tough and difficult times. I could be completely wrong, but as I read more about Shadrack and read over this one paragraph, it forces me to conclude that although Shadrack pees in public and does awful and treacherous things to the people in the community, deep down, he really is a good person and can show love and compassion to others, specifically, Sula. The respect I've developed for Shadrack after this one paragraph is enormous. I feel you guys feel the same way, and if you don't, please let me know your input on it!
Thanks! Mason.
Hello,
My answer will pretain to question three tonight. Sula, who's death was viewed as a blessing upon the community begins to fall in the other direction. The town becomes worse off than before Sula's death. Interestingly enough, I think Sula's evil was a way for the bottom to unite as one and keep trying to get to the promise land. They never get there, however, the evil Sula's life brings motivates the whole bottom to reach it. It is extremely rare to find a human who is motivated by possitive aspects of their life. A group can often easierly be motivated by fear of evil or fear of failure. Once that evil dissapears in the bottom, the motivation also dissapears, causing the community to fall farther away from hapiness.
#3.
Sula did in fact do something good for the people of the Bottom. While everyone thought she was terrible, it helped them become protective. Mothers who didn't pay attention to their children, now took care of them. Teapot's mom didn't beat him after she thought Sula pushed him, but when Sula died, Teapot's mom started beating him again. Sula also made wives protective over their husbands to make sure she didn't steal them. Fear of Sula created stronger love and tighter bonds. She also made Shadrack feel some joy in his life, even though she stumbled into his house once. That was Shadrack's only visitor. The only one bold enough to step into his house was the only one worthy of a place in his heart. Sula was bad, but her bad was also good. Ironic but helpful. After her death, things went the opposite way.
Hello,
Answering question three,
I agree with a lot of what was said. I feel that, as Brendan mentioned, Sula was a way to unite the people of the bottom. However, I have to disagree with Brendan in that I feel Sula is not motivated by the "goodness" in her life, but rather, just the opposite. Toni Morrison talks a lot about how Sula finds life boring. On page 147 Morrison writes, "Nothing was ever different. They just all the same. All of the words and all of the smiles, every tear and gag just something to do." In this passage, Sula addresses tears and gags, which are, to be quite frank, not good things. The way Chicken died and the way Sula sends Eva to a home- these are not good things. I feel that Sula is not motivated by her goodness or her badness. I feel that in a way, Sula has no motivation but rather, when she was alive, just lived life for the hell of it and did things just to see what would happen. Sorry for that little splurge, I just wanted to add a little opinion on what was said.
I feel that Sula was very influential to life on the Bottom but I think it is debatable whether her effect was good. She was very similar to Shadrack in that her idiosyncrasies were a part of the Bottom and without them, things could not go on as they had. Like it is said in the reading, "Other Mothers who had defended from Sula's malevolence now had nothing to rub up against. The tension was gone and so was the reason for the effort they had made" (Morisson 153). I feel that though Sula's actions when she was alive were not particularly good, her presence in the Bottom had a certain influence that was recognized after she was gone. Her influence on Shadrack was positive and I think it brought him the smallest amount of sanity in his life, and her belt was a reminder of the hapiness that she brought him by accidentally visiting. However, when alive, Sula was not exactly a nice person or a good person and her dedications to the community were not really wanted or needed. I think Sula did some good, especially to Shadrack, but I don't think she was necessarily a good person in the whole. However, I do think she was very important to the community and her presence there had a major effect on people's lives in the bottom. Though Sula did not always bring out the best in people (the mothers educated their children based on Sula's "fault" so to speak), she was important nonetheless. Overall, I think Sula had goodness in her and brought goodness to the lives of people like Shadrack but otherwise I would argue that Sula was a good person and brought any good to the community.
Thanks
Good evening! I just want to say that a quick comment about number 4. I answered the prompt about the word "always," in our last blog entries on Thursday night, and while I did discuss the permanency of the word, I can't believe I didn't make the connection to Shadrack!! I'm glad the book came out and made the connection for me, because I found it so interesting that Sula was in fact remembering Shadrack's words as she died. :)
Anyway, Now I'll actually answer number 5. I would say that they smash the tunnel because, in the excitement and adrenaline of the moment, they feel the need to exercise all of their demons, you might say. What I mean is that all of the frustration they had felt over the years, not only about the lack of work available to them on projects such as the tunnel but also poverty and general oppression, was so built up inside of them that they finally just took it all out on the tunnel. They were a community voicing their opinion (in a violent way) and were united in that sense. Also, I feel that the situation is symbolic of their desire for change. They tried to change something, to destroy something that was not going their way, and even though that backfired and ended up killing many of them, they had tried nonetheless. They had become so resilient to hardships that it turned into anger and violence. The combination of odd weather, National Suicide Day, the death of Sula, and intensity of the moment created a passion in the people of Medallion that could not be tamed. They, once again, and as has happened other times in the book, seem unstoppable. That is, until everything comes crashing in on them, literally. I think the situation also shows how the people of Medallion still have a long way to go in terms of changing the world they live in, and they will still have to keep getting back up and fighting even after countless defeats. I find evidence of this in the fact that Shadrack is still ringing his bell at the end of the chapter.
See you tomorrow!
#2
I personally think that the sentence, "The white people who came," does not really symbolize how charity can lead to resentment. The sentence did come out abruptly but it does not support the whole situation, which means it does not support the charity or the resentment. Therefore the situation and the sentence of that instant does not really cooperate or intermix with each other, and so the answer is False.
#3
Before she died, Sula maintained her errogance even about her state of loneliness and about the manner in which she would die. It was typical of her to act so straight forward proud, but it was strange that she talked about how she would be loved once the Bottom was in other words, turned upside down. This speech she gave Nel was a sort of foreshadowing of the white people taking over the Bottom and the teenagers acting differently and the whores being even worse than they used to be, etc. It seems that everything was turned upside down in a way. Although everyone else celebrated her death, she was missed by Shadrack, who thought of her as the only person he had a connection to and the only "visitor" he ever had. In a way she was loved without the people knowing it, because she created the Bottom that they loved. The town where every one shaped up and became better mothers and friends. By hating Sula, everyone had come together. It was chaos when she died, and although they didn't mourn her, they mourned the loss of the place she had created. It was also strange that the people died in the river and the title of the song that they sang over Sula's grave was, "Shall We Gather at the River." - just pointing that out!
I am responding to #2. I choose true. The sentence "The white people who came with Christmas bags of rock candy and old clothes were hard put to get a Yes',. thank you, out of those sullen mouths." could be interpreted as an attempt to explain how difficult it is to be poor. Old clothes have a connotation of used, no longer in style, unwanted, and "so yesterday". I mean who really wants somebody else's hand-me down clothes? I know for a fact that being the third youngest I always used to get hand-me down clothes and I never got new ones. It's very disappointing, especially when deep in your heart your dying for the new, latest dress or cute jeans. So, of course the white people handing off their old unwanted, probably stretched or stained clothes, is going to be resented. The fact is the white people expect the black people to be falling all over the place to thank them for their GRACIOUS gesture. From the black people's point of view, the white people are showing off their superiority by flaunting the fact that they have so many clothes lying around they can just give away last seasons to the unfortunate black people. It is always hard to accept charity because it clearly shows who is better off and therefore is higher on the social latter. Somehow it makes the people below look incapable and uneducated. It hurts the pride of the people to have step down and accept somebody's old stuff instead of being able to provide their own things for their family, especially during a time such as Christmas, where new things are one of the main parts of the holiday. I'm not saying giving is bad. Of course it is not. It just must be hard for the person on the other side to have to take it. It's almost embarrassing for them, and a terrible crush to their pride.
Hey everyone!
So I am addressing question 2. I believe that statment could be true. A lot of African American people are frowned upon by White people. White people feel as though it's there "duty" to protect the african american race. So by saying that the white people who came to the charity event somhow changed the outcome, could be veiw as resentment. I've really enjoyed reading all of your thoughts and Kelsey I think the point you brought up is very interesting. I look forward to reading the rest of yours!
Hey guys im going to answer question number 5.
The people in the spontaneous parade begin to vandalize the construction site, where the tunnel is being built. The Deweys along with many other people are walking through this tunnel when it collapses due to the vandalization. they drown along with others. So the question comes up, Why do they destroy the tunnel. I think its because the black people were all denied job positions in construction while building this tunnel. Ultimately they decide to get there revenge by vandalizing the site, and the unexpected occurs. I find the tunnel to be some what sympolic in a sense. There lifes are shattered along with the hopes of equality when iblethe light is turned off in the tunnel collapses and the other side is no longer vis
Pertaining to question 6.
I feel that the greatest element that Toni Morrison is able to use in her writing is perfectly depicted in this scene. Here Irony is at its best. The fact that these people have for so long been adamantly against and even afraid, bringing their children in from the street and closing the windows, of Shadrock's National Suicide Day and yet in their own acceptance of it and in trying to understand it the participate in it in just the way they were for so long afraid of allowing to happen, they commit, perhaps not directly and perhaps not intentionally but none the less still commiting, suicide.
The idea that National Suicide Day has encompassed, in time, not only the entire journey of Sula's but also much of the the journey of the Bottom means it has witnessed the hopes and dissapointments, the rises and falls of the people and it even more importantly was at the beginning and now at the end of these people's lives.
My answer is in response to #3.
Sula was "good" in some ways. She wasn't good in the sense she was the politest person or perhaps the kindest to other people living in the Bottom. But her being brought the people of the Bottom a way of living their lives as much better people. Sula's goodness wasn't present because she wanted to be good. She was "good" because she was unintentionally able to influence others to be good and better than average. Sula brought to Shadrack a strange sort of friendship. He considered her his visitor, and a friend based on the fact he loved tadpoles and her birthmark over her eye reminded him of one. She unintentionally gave him comfort. After she dies it says people return to how they used to be. When she was alive they had someone they wanted to feel better than, they wanted to be superior to and to prove they weren't as awful a person as Sula was to themselves. (Not that I think Sula was an awful person). When she died they lost that, they didn't have the worst to compare themselves to, so they forgot the best they good be, and in that sense. It was Sula who brought the goodness to the Bottom.
Pall, Question #5
The New road and the tunnel in construction are both symbols to the black people of the oprression of white people towards black people, therefore both inspire a deep hatred from the black people. When they all got together, each persons hate combined with his spontaneous parade comrades hate, and eventualy this hatred grew so big that they went out of control and attempted to destroy the tunnel. They would've destroyed the bridge too, except that it's very difficult to do so. I'm sure this instance, along with nearly everything that happens in the last portion of the book, is dripping in metaphorical meaning, but i'm still trying to wrap my head around it, so this is the best i can do for now.
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