Back on page 157 of Mrs. Dalloway, the narrator writes, "For this is the truth about the soul, he thought, our self, who fish-like inhabits deep seas and plies among obscurities . . . suddenly she shoots to the surface and sports on the wind-wrinkled waves; that is, has a positive need to brush, scrape, kindle herself, gossiping."
Do one of the following:
1. paraphrase the above.
2. comment on how this remark about the our selves, our souls, work bears on something in pages 161-171.
3. In 1.4 of King Lear, everyone is trying to assert their selves; everyone's self is shooting to the surface and sporting on the wind-wrinkled waves, but in a different way than we observe this happening in Mrs. Dalloway. Comment.
I meant to keep this blog not too-time-consuming. Feel free just to do one of the above, and to keep things succinct, even though I do appreciate your more lengthy, in-depth explorations.
Do one of the following:
1. paraphrase the above.
2. comment on how this remark about the our selves, our souls, work bears on something in pages 161-171.
3. In 1.4 of King Lear, everyone is trying to assert their selves; everyone's self is shooting to the surface and sporting on the wind-wrinkled waves, but in a different way than we observe this happening in Mrs. Dalloway. Comment.
I meant to keep this blog not too-time-consuming. Feel free just to do one of the above, and to keep things succinct, even though I do appreciate your more lengthy, in-depth explorations.
25 comments:
In King Lear, it's as if everyone is not afraid to assert themselves. King Lear openly tells his daughter how angry he is, and she openly yells back at him, and the Fool, of course, is the most open of all (telling the complete truth in his own, difficult to undestand way). In Mrs. Dalloway, however, it is as if everyone is afraid to say what they think, perhaps for fear of being judged or criticized, but it's clear they have more going on than they all let on. Clarissa, for example, in this scene at the party, says "It was too much like being- just anybody, standing there..." as if she is tired of pretending to be such a perfect, high class woman, but doesn't know what else to do.
A major difference between how the characters handle themselves in King Lear and Mrs. Dalloway is that in Kind Lear, gossiping and story telling is (1) used maliciously in some cases and/ or (2) every character has his or her place. That is to say that one does not speak out of place in the presence of someone higher in rank (the exceptions being Cordelia and the fool).
I agree with CJ. I think that everyone in King Lear, for the most part, speaks to please the king with the exception of Cordelia, who speaks the truth out of love for the king, and the fool, who speaks the truth because it is his job to do so. In Mrs. Dalloway I see a parallel because Clarissa is restricted by social confines to what she can say to certain people, for example Mrs. Bruton when Clarissa is not invited to lunch with Richard. Also, much is hidden between Clarissa and Peter during their reunion because it is much more convenient to pretend to be indifferent than for Clarissa to shout out how excited she is when they meet, or when she kissed Sally. These thoughts aren’t necessarily silenced due to a rank issue, as in King Lear, but more of a societal issue.
I agree with Julie. I think that with King Lear and Mrs. Dalloway the gossiping is very apparent. The difference is that in King Lear it is not gossiping, it is upfront confrontation. In Mrs. Dalloway it is gossiping. I think that in King Lear they are fighting, and in Mrs. Dalloway the people are more discussing things. For example, Cordelia openly yells at her father in an angry manner, whereas in Mrs. Dalloway the high class party status leads to gossip about one another.
1. This is the truth about society. We are naturally (like fish) unknown and obscure, living in obscure places...Then unexpectedly she (Clarrisa) jumps to the surface of life and things and rides life's waves. That is she has a good need to dig and scrape information out of people so she can arouse and excite herself through gossiping.
In regards to paraphrasing, I believe, in the simplest of terms, that what the narrator is saying is that our souls like to dwell at the bottom of things, avoiding light and confrontation, until it is forced to come to the "wind-wrinkled" surface and be socialable (hence the word "gossiping").
I think that what the narrator is touching on is our "soul" - our, as some put it, "essense" - dwells in obscurities most of the time, meaning that for the most part, our "true" selves are hidden. The word "soul" is completely abstract, but the word does have connotations of etherial beings, heaven, and how the soul dwells in your body until released into heaven. I believe that that is one of the meanings here; that maybe our light is measured when it is released, when it takes that breath of air.
I also think that the narrator is touching upon the human desire for affection and touch and compassion, which is a long thread within "Mrs. Dalloway". Clarissa, especially, craves this need as well as Reiza. They curl into themselves - Reiza, because of her husbands illness and Clarissa because of her frivilous lifestyle - but seem to come up for air in certain moments. For Clarissa, one of the moments was taking about Sally and how she has these emotions toward her, and on occassions, to women. There was so much passion and envy, I feel, for Sally and the 'freedom' she seems to hold. For Reiza, I feel a signifcant moment was when her and Septimus was sewing that hat for Mrs. Peters. Reiza came up for air - as well as Septimus - because she felt that things were 'normal' again, that she had the Septimus she fell in love with back. I think in our lives we all have more than one of these moments when we feel truely connected to one person, where we seem to breathe deeper, and perhaps, 'live' a little more.
checking in.. I find what Kim has said very interesting
Just wonderful Kimberly! Going off of her, I also think this passage is referring to the depth of our "souls," how we tend to dwell on thoughts and think way too much. And then because we need a release from all of that deep thought we rekindle ourselves by going to simpler things, like gossip. Sounds a little like Clarissa. But like Kim said, we don't usually show that depth of our souls, the depth of our thoughts, our true selves and we avoid confrontation until we absolutely have to. Like fish, we stay under water until we have to come to the top of the water, whether on purpose or on accident.
In terms of paraphrasing:
We all live our lives, searching for depth and meaning, the type of which is our own choosing. We swim, deep underwater in our own issues, buried within ourselves. Every so often, though, we are brought out of this personal search for whatever we are searching for, and emerge. We emerge to interact, to experience other people, to become re-lit from relationships and narrative from other people.
At Clarissa's party, and other parties like them, people emerge to interact and become re-lit. This is why, according to Clarissa, they matter.
As far as paraphrasing is concerned, I don't think it is true that the soul likes to avoid light and confrontation so much as that we do not necessarily engage our souls when performing daily functions, and so the soul is allowed to go unused and unnoticed, plying among obscurities and remaining abstract. The quote is saying that, when a real-life situation emerges in which the soul or the true-self must be engaged, it shoots to the surface and becomes, all of a sudden, honed and specific. It has a need to make itself known. This explains egotism -- when a person is fully engaged, they have a need to be heard, to have their "self" affirmed and engaged. This is inherent human need. The soul, which is so often left to abstraction, flexes like a muscle with its need to be heard and understood.
I find it interesting that we explore this idea, in mrs Dalloway, in the context of a party, which is a large gathering in which many "souls" are mingled, and must share space and attention. A party is conducive to the inherent need for "self" attention in the sense that it allows people to talk about their lives, their personalities, etc... It allows them to gossip, which both affirms their own "self" and compares it to the "selves" of others. Clarissa's party only plays up this idea that the soul lies dormant until an event like a party, in which it is allowed to "shoot to the surface" and make itself heard. As far as King Lear is concerned, as Julie said, each "soul" is not afraid of asserting itself. There is a clashing of vocalized opinions, and a vying for attention on the part of all the characters. The physical tension in the play allows the "souls" to come to the surface and battle on a physical and emotional level, which is in line with the innate human need for affirmation.
I agree with Julie and CJ, and I think that both the characters of King Lear and Mrs. Dalloway's daughter are more free-spirited. Free-spirited in the case of her daughter, though, does not mean outspoken. She wants to be different, but at the same time, is kind of in a bind as to how to go about doing so. The characters in King Lear are pretty open with each other, even if what they're saying isn't always true (the two daughters manipulate their father to get what they want).
Checking in….I like what Laurel and Gabi have pointed out in regards to the meaning of Clarissa’s parties. We have discussed that she throws the parties because of life and now we see that she throws the parties to see everyone’s souls emerge and to give people a place to emerge.
1. Our souls are inhabited by thoughts that are fishlike in the way they move darting through the mess of thoughts that obscure our brains. When a good idea comes up it shoots to the top of our brain and comes out of those thick deep thoughts. The thoughts are positively effected when they are challenged making the soul and brain think and feel with more confidence. The form that clarissa is challenged is through gossip.
1. The truth about the soul of a person is that we are tremendously surrounded by the society, and are in layers of darkness... all of a sudden she comes out and makes an entrance, draws attention to herself, at the same time feeling the need to bask in attention.
I would to tackle the paraphrasing factor of the Mrs. Dalloway quote. The passage definitely is commenting on the depth of life and ours. It explores metaphorically how we are like fish. I definitely think the "she" in the middle is referring to Mrs. Dalloway like Annabel said. She is lying under the surface until she breaks free and rides those waves and the parties are what allow her to shoot to the surface. An observation I made that I found interesting to bring up the question of; is the excessive use of punctuation in this one sentence, and why Woolf wouldn't just break this sentence up more. How does the extra punctuation function?
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In regards to Gabi's comment, I do think, in some regards, we, as people, do avoid confrontations. I agree with your comment on egoism but I have a strong belief that we, as people, either are strongly for confrontation or fear it. I'm also confused as to your destinction between "daily functions" and "real-life situations" because aren't the daily things you do, still real life situations, no matter how mundane they may be?
I also don't believe that our souls are not used in daily functions, which comes to the point of what is your definition of "soul". If "soul", in what I was refering to, is your being that is with you till you die, and sent up into "heaven" (sorry if I'm getting into religious territory here) I think that the use of "soul" in that regard is that it carries with us everyday; our soul is ourselves. However, I do think that the term "soul" is too abstract to pin down on a necassary meaning, for religion and beliefs of our own influence what we believe our "souls" to consist of.
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Here goes my paraphrasing-
This is what it's always been, the truth in us. We've all been lost for a while, if not forever. But then she changes. We can't handle it anymore so she arises, and it flows... and we can't stop it. So then. It just keeps flowing.
Here goes my paraphrasing-
This is what it's always been, the truth in us. We've all been lost for a while, if not forever. But then she changes. We can't handle it anymore so she arises, and it flows... and we can't stop it. So then. It just keeps flowing.
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YEAH BLOG!!! I wish I could write a lengthy one tonight, but alas I must go a'non...that didn't make any sense, but yeah.
I feel that in King Lear, since it is a play, emotions (and technically tactics) must be expressed through the dialogue, for that is all that there is for the audience to percieve. Especially for Sheakespearean plays there were minimal costumes, sets/scenery, and of course the lighting plot was non-existent.
Besides the obvious, the works King Lear and Mrs. Dalloway are very different especially where it comes to expression of oneself. In a novel, that is intented to be read versus one of Shakespeares plays which really was meant to be acted, the distanced narrator (in many but not all cases) can describe internal conflict and feelings of the characters. This is how we get such a clear picture of Mrs. Dalloway, Septimus, etc. because we literally set up camp inside of them.
In the novel, we seem to be a part of them because the text allows us to do so. I'm not saying that it is not possible to make this sort of connection with King Lear and other characters but there is a tougher exterior (of dialogue) that one must break through in order to get to these inner feelings and struggle.
In King Lear, the only literal moments when we are in the characters mindset is when there is an aside or a sililoquoy. Otherwise, we must form opinions for ourselves rather than having them be handed to us. And while on the other hand i'm not saying that Mrs. Dalloway in not complex I am saying that in cases of text versus script there are times when the expression of ideas must be shown through different means.
Wow, there I hope I covered all of the bases.
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