Big Ben "(The leaden circles dissolved in the air.)"
In this reading assignment, Clarissa Dalloway and Peter Walsh meet again after several years. Would you describe the meeting as passionate, not passionate, both, somewhere in between? Why?
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I would describe Clarissa and Peter's meeting as both not passionate and passionate. There is a restraint, a feeling of understanding as to the inevitability of their separation, due to the choice Clarissa made when she refused his proposal of marriage. Furthermore, as we have seen, Clarissa's feelings for Peter aren't particularly sexual, so it is not passionate in that way. Likewise, they both are older, and on some level separated by theirs years of distance and their marriages and love for others. On a deeper level, though, perhaps one which they are less likely to readily acknowledge, they are filled with love and passion and frustration and yearning for each other, and these feelings grow until the moment when "he burst into tears; wept; wept without the least shame, sitting on the sofa, the tears running down his cheeks. And Clarissa had leant forward, taken his had, drawn him to her, kissed him" (Woolf, 45). This intense, passionate connection is made challenging to deal with due to the self-inflicted impossibility of their being together.
When Peter seizes Clarissa by the shoulders and asks her if she is happy, and then is interrupted by the entrance of Elizabeth, it's as if this spell of connection, of their letting themselves feel what they felt at Bourton, and what they really still feel, underneath, every day, is broken. Peter has to leave, because it is hard for them to be around each other when not in their self-woven spell.
I agree with Laurel in that this meeting is not at all sexually passionate, because these two characters are not as young as they were the first time they were in love and they do not feel that way for each other anymore. However, I would say that this passage holds some passionate emotions and energy in the form of tension. There is a lot left unspoken by Clarissa and Peter, and being the reader we are able to know everything that the two are thinking; however being present in the room would be very different. I also think that as the reader it is easy to get caught up in the words that the characters are shouting in their heads and think that there is a lot of passion in the scene, when really everything said aloud is quite reserved because they do not know how the other will react. If anything I would say that this meeting is a bit awkward, mostly because Clarissa was not expecting Peter to ring her doorbell and does not know what to say to him after so long. She “could have bitten her tongue for thus reminding Peter that he had wanted to marry her.” I think that her previous refusal to marry him has created a lot of space between Clarissa and Peter.
I think that Clarissa and Peter are both a bit confused about how they feel about each other and have too much that has happened since they last talked. Too much time has passed for them to be able to catch up on everything which just leads to a thick silence which they don’t know how to fill. Peter is reluctant to tell Clarissa because he is afraid of what she will think of him and whether she will try to badmouth the woman he loves.
i feel that Peter and Clarissa used to share an intimate and passionate relationship (similar to Clarissa and Sally). The fact, however, is that Clarissa chose to be with Richard. With Richard, she would have security. i bring this up only to show opposites between Peter and Richard. When Peter returns to Clarissa, there is almost, as Laurel said, a restraint.
When the two meet again, there is a clear want of something. we may not know what that something is, but there is obviously something between the two of them that was never rightfully finished with. When Peter begins crying and Clarissa comforts him, they are opening old wounds again from the past. a simple touch sparks the memory of their old passion that just might still be there. i think this scene is filled with passion. while it is not the stereotypical sexual passion, it is strongly and overwhelmingly felt between them. i think that from the moment they lay eyes on each other once again, they regret their past choices (if just for a second).
I feel as though when Peter and Clarissa meet again, a small degree of sparks are rekindled as he "positively trembles(ing)" when he sees her again. He also feels embarrassed when he realised that she looked at him, as though it's made him feel like he used to about her.
In a sense it is passionate, as he finds it "delicious" to hear her say that - as though he has a crush on her, and it seems as though her use of the word has made him lose his senses, as he then follows on in thought with finding everything else in his surroundings "delicious" - "the silver, the chairs, all so delicious!"
However, I must say that their relationship is definitely not as passionate as it was when they first met, since they have matured not only in age, but also in mindset - their lifestyle has also changed, it has become something else from what it was.
They share a passionate relationship now, but not as passionate as they once were before, as Clarissa "leant forward, taken his hand, drawn him to her, kissed him" as though out of deprivation (?) I'm not sure, this is just a thought. She seems to regret at the end of that kiss that she married Richard, as she says that "If I had married him, this gaiety would've been mine all day!"
I would describe Clarrisa and Peter's meeting as passionate in real life terms. What makes their meeting so passionate is that they still have love for each other that has been hidden away and repressed until their meeting where the emotion all comes out in one dramatic moment. Where Peter bursts out crying and Clarrisa kisses Peter. "Suddenly thrown by those uncontrollable forces thrown through the air, he burst into tears; wept; wept without the least shame, sitting on the sofa, the tears running down his cheeks." these uncontrollable forces are his hidden emotions that suddenly strike out, so powerful that he is unable to control them. Clarrissa sees Peter's crying as a signal that he is not very happy and still wants Clarrisa. Clarrissa then reacts by taking Peter by the hand and kissing him. After she kissed him she felt immediately relieved because all of that hidden emotion that was between them, blocking them from expressing their emotions, had burst out. "and Clarrissa had leant forward, taken his hand, drawn him to her kissed him,-actually had felt his face on hers before she could down the brandishing of silver flashing-plumes like pampas grass in a tropical gale in her breast, which, subsiding, left her holding his hand, patting his knee and, feeling as she sat back extraordinarily at ease with him and light-hearted, all in a clap it came over her, If I had married him, this gaiety would have been mine all day!"
I think Clarissa and Peter's meeting is definitely both passionate and not passionate, or somewhere in between. At first there is the excitement of him arriving, Clarissa being very flustered:
"for a single second she could not remember what he was called! so surprised she was to see him, so glad, so shy, so utterly taken aback to have Peter Walsh come to her unexpectedly in the morning!"
And then Peter kissing her hands. There is still the same childish feeling for a few seconds, but then as Laurel said, it's like their lives creep up on them, they remember, and that feeling dissolves, but then may recover again (Clarissa comforting Peter, the description of the moon, etc). It's always a switch between the past and the present, right and wrong.
What their relationship seems to consist of now is once again, thinking of what could have happened. Regrets regrets regrets. Then trying to convince themselves that what they did was okay. However it always turns around to thinking what a shame, he didn't achieve his dreams, or what a shame, she got older living a life of throwing parties. And then the same excitement as before. For instance, Peter repeats "don't forget about my party" to himself.
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I totes agree with what Christine said, "It's always a switch between the past and the present, right and wrong."
I agree that the meetup was passionate just because it stirred up so many old feelings that were so passionate for the couple. Especially Peter- I think he was very nervous, especially shown by his actions at the beginning. Clarissa still had the feelings of passion, but obviously they were not passionate enough for her to totally fall for Peter again
I would say that there are definitely moments of passion in these passages. I almost felt as though they were forcing themselves to be dispassionate or at least Clarissa was in order to avoid their past. Both speak of how they feel inferior in some way to the other and there is an awkward feeling between them as though, again, they are forcing something...maybe the politeness? While I couldn't say that there are necessarily hard feelings for the between them, there is still tension for old habits and unnervings. I agree with what has already been said about their meeting bringing back a flood of memories and a yearning for each other despite everything that happened that "horrible summer".
I agree with everything that's been said-their meeting is somewhere in between not passionate and passionate. I think the thing that might deter some of the passion is the fact that their situation is not the same anymore. They are both older now, and the bottom line is that Clarissa is with Richard now, and she chose to be with him ( at least as far as we know). That should not discount the fact that still, Clarissa may feel something when Peter kisses her hands, that may revive some of the feelings she had for him when they were younger. What cannot be fixed though, is that time has passed, and their situation will never be the same.
I agree with everyone before that it is a passionate and yet not passionate meeting. Clarissa and Peter both realize how much they missed each other. Clarissa keeps questioning why she didn't marry him and why she made the safe chose instead of going for the adventurous and unpredictable life she could have had with Peter. I think she begins to regret it but then she quickly corrects herself and picks out the things that bother her about peter. The way he plays with his knife and the way he doesn't think about what other people are feeling.
They seem to still have their old feelings of love although not necessarily sexually they miss that companionship. Because as Peter says...."overcome with shame suddenly at having been a fool; wept; been emotional and told her everything, as usual, as usual." They had a strong bond and they both realize during this meeting how much they had shared and just how much they missed it. Although the faults are still there they are kind of in the back of her head and she can't really understand why she didn't marry him.
I, myself, would not describe Clarissa and Peter's interaction 'passionate' (at least not at first), for I don't believe that there was an overwhelming feeling of sentimentality, more like egoism and jealousy. However, I do believe to describe their meeting as acutely aware of one another, and this acuteness to develop into the rising of old feelings and memories.
When Peter first arrives at her house, the narrator tells the reader that his hands were trembling, and he kisses Clarissa's hands. The gesture is quite affectionate, for kissing someone's hand not only shows respect but a sense of familiarity or gentleman-like flirtation. However, then it goes on to say that Peter takes out a pocket knife, where Clarissa is triggered and she remembers that it was a habit of his; "What an extrodinary habit that was, Clarissa thought; always playing with a knife. Always making one feel, too, frivolous; empty-minded; a mere silly chatterbox, as he used. But I too, she thought, and taking up her needle, summonded, like a Queen whose guards have fallen asleep and left her unprotected (she had been quite taken aback vy this visit - it had upset her) so that any one can stroll in and have a look at her where she lies with the brambles curving over her, summonded to her help the things she did; the things she liked; her husband; Elizabeth; her self, in short, which Peter hardly knew now, all to come about her and beat off the enemy."
I think that this passage is saying a couple things about the way Clarissa feels about seeing Peter again. For one, she feels naked around him, or in this situation, like she is being seen completely bare by all the people at her party, including Peter himself. Two, she also feels like Peter does not know her now - how could he with so much time apart? - that feelings of his preconcieved judgements make her angry and taken aback by seeing him. It as if she is seeing him for the first time, although his familiar habit of his pocket knife triggers it for her. Again, though, this thought leads to her provoking Peter, and getting into some sort of 'competition' which was described earlier about their relationship.
"'Well, and what's happened to you?' she said. So before a battle begins, the horses paw the ground; toss their heads; the light shines on their flanks; their necks curve. So Peter Walsh and Clarissa, sitting side by side on the blue sofa, challenged each other. His powers chafed and tossed in him. He assembled from different quarters all sorts of things; praise; his career at Oxford; his marriage, which she knew nothing whatever about; how he had loved; and altogether done his job."
Although Clarissa and Peter both feel like they know nothing of one another, it is as if nothing had changed between them. They are still competitive, eager to show each other they are not who they think they are, that their lives turned out differently, and most importantly, without each other in them.
But then again, what interests me in the most in their interaction is Clarissa's reaction to Peter saying he was in love; he was in love with some girl from India, and jealousy seemed to become her, which eventually led to their kiss. In that moment, she says "He has left me; I am alone for ever, she thought, folding her hands upon her knee."
This meeting gives 'closure', almost, but not quite. It is as Clarissa had hoped for more between the two of them, but it was never apparent before.
Clarissa's meeting with Peter is steeped in emotion -- much of it convoluted. It is very unlike stereotypical "young love," whose passion is blind and unadulterated. There is a sense of clarity to a "first love" that is missing in all subsequent relationships. I think what we are seeing in this scene is the amalgamation of this initial passion they had for each other and all the external forces that have gotten in their way since then. It is clear that some of the initial attraction remains -- some of the breathlessness, the romance: "And Clarissa had leant forward, taken his hand, drawn him to her, kissed him, -- actually had felt his face on hers before she could down the brandishing of silver flashing -- plumes like pampas grass in a tropic gale in her breast, which, subsiding, left her holding his hand..." She still has a physical reaction to contact with him. However, there are years between them. There is a sense of frustration, on both sides, at the life the other has led. Peter is frustrated by the snobbery of the Dalloways in general, by their conformity to society. Clarissa is dissapointed that Peter has not outgrown his old habits -- falling for women, reckless travel, not settling down. She thinks he has not amounted to much. It is as if all the hopes they had for each other when they were young have failed to come into fruition, and thus there is an almost tangible frustration. This frustration leads to tension, which is omnipresent. The tension escalates to the point that Peter starts crying:"he burst into tears, wept..." In this sense, their meeting is intensely passionate. It is as if all the dreams and attractions they shared were repressed, allowed to grow stagnant and swollen until this meeting, at which point they explode - rendering both Peter and Clarissa unable to process their feelings and expectations for one another.
Very passionate :-)
Checking in…I agree with everything that has been said so far.
Checking in.. I like Gabby's comment
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Upon their first few moments together (since the past 5 years when Peter has been in India), Clarissa and Peter somewhat awkwardly try to rekindle their relationship.
The source of the awkwardness is the fact that neither are intentionally trying to be passionate about this long time reunion, yet they do feel it inside them. Even in the first few moments, Clarissa IMMEDIATELY thinks about the EXTREME awkwardness of how she rejected him when he proposed to her (at least 5 years ago). That awkwardness is glaringly apparent in the scene.
It's slightly ironic/funny (those really arent the right words but I hope I get the point across) that both of them feel that awkward pull on them but neither of them mention it probably for the sake of being more embarrassed.
The reference to the 'terrace in the moonlight' is a prime example. In Peter's mind he is ashamed that he is alreay bored with the conversation, he feels awkward that Clarissa is still caught up in the moment of it all, remembering all of the memories that she spent with him.
Another example (one for Clarissa) is shortly after that. She ask him "Do you remember the lake?" which seems like a normal thing to say, she could just be making conversation, remembering good times that they had both shared, yet this memory evokes such emotion (she spoke in "an abrupt voice, under the pressure of an emotion which caught her heart, made the muscles of her throat stiff, and contracted lips in a spasm as she said 'lake'.")
Perhaps these memories come from times before Clarissa had completely grown up and matured into the socially correct woman that she is (or at least appears to be) today. Perhaps this feeling of when she was with Peter in her 'youth' evoke such feelings that she longs to be back there again at the lake, young and uncaring.
I think this is similar to the memory of Sally Seton; Clarissa remembers the good (and reckless) times that she had in her youth. Clarissa might hold these memories to be some of the best she has. For in them, she was truly free.
More to come later!
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i like what mike said about the good memories being where Clarissa is truly free. i also like your icon!
As many people said above (or not), I think Clarissa Dalloway and Peter Walsh's meeting was somewhere in between passionate and not passionate. It has been more than 5 years since they have met, and I think this absence of Peter made Clarissa to have some kind of passionate feeling toward Peter. However, after they talk for few minutes, or an hour, Clarissa starts to feel annoying about him, especially when he plays with his pocket knife. I think the pocket knife is one of the important element, as a part of Peter's characteristic. When Clarissa thinks about Peter in previous part of the story, she mentions about his pocket knife, but now she is with him talking and she feels annoyed because he keeps plays with his pocket knife. For example, she says, "For Heaven's sake, leave your knife alone!" in page 45.
I'm not sure that you can try to argue that the meeting between Clarissa and Peter is either passionate or non-passionate. At the beginning of cours the encounter is not very kind and nice on Peters' part anyway. He is ticked off by the fact that Clarissa is with a man as conservative as Richard. I don't know if it was ever Peter or Clarissa's intention to ever again become romantically involved after the night's party. However, it does seem that Clarissa is passionate about Peter, when she kisses him and all. Later she also tells Peter to remember the party. That could be implying that she doesn't want to not see him again. But in the same breathe, there's really not enough to argue either side ultimately. They're still both in another love life currently.
Hey, so I agree with everything that's been said so far. Personally, I don't believe there's a right or wrong answer to whether or not their relationship is passionate. The thing is, humans are very complex. It's hard for us as readers to see what's going on with them, and it seems they don't even know what they're feeling 100%. For example, Peter tries so hard to impress Clarissa with what's been going on in his life, how well off he is, and he also tells her that "he's in love", and he tells her all about it. Then, he bursts into tears all of a sudden. To me, this seemed to suggest that he was burning up with passion for Clarissa inside, but was trying to hide it. Clarissa also seems to be hiding how much she wants him, difficult as that is for her.
In other words, neither of them appear very passionate, but they seem like they have more passion that they just aren't showing. So, yes, they ARE very passionate, bu they aren't showing that at all.
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I thought Gabby brought up a lot of good points about the idea of outer passion between Peter and Clarissa in the passage. While I had originally thought that the passion was that of an inner sort, she brings up the point that both of them actually feel a necessity for 'open passion'. They are both drawn toward physical contact, something which is an opposite to the relationship between Clarissa and Richard, for since her illness neither of them feel that they need/should express their love for each other in a 'physical way'. All of their (Peter and Clarissa's) time apart has escalated until this simple reunion between them. This one reunion sparked a kiss (a physical sign of love) which had been lost from Clarissa's life for some time.
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I agree with Julie in that there is no correct answer about the passion of this meeting.
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