1. Comment on Nora's relationship with her children.OR
2. How does Nora's relationship with her children fit in with other things we know or think about Nora?
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3. Krogstad tells Nora that she has committed the crime of forgery. Explain.
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4. Nora explains why she thinks a court of law would forgive her for her forgery because her motive was good. Does her explanation reinforce anything we've discovered about her so far, or does it tell us something new about her?
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2. We know that Nora is somewhat Torvald's "pet" and is obviously the stereotypical mother-wife-woman figure, although during the last reading we found things to contradict this. However, as discussed a little in class, I believe that Nora enjoys being a stereotypical mother figure. While she is playing with her children we see that she is sooo affectionate with them, so interested in them, so eager to play with them, and obviously loves them soooo much. She evens tells the nanny,
"No, don't bother, Anne-Marie- I'll undress them myself. Oh yes, let me. It's such fun."
This confirms the fact that Nora is affectionate, cheerful, and enjoys playing her role in the family.
1-Nora's relationship with her children is one similar to other mothers and their children. She is very acquiescent to their wishes, and also seems praiseful of them too, as she sounds impressed when she says, "You pulled both Emmy and Bob on the sled? Imagine, all together!"
Occasionally she also places herself on the same level as her children, behaving as though she were one of them, in, "Yes, let's play hide-and-seek.", as opposed to, "Okay, I'll play hide-and-seek with you", because the latter seems much more well thought out as opposed to the former response.
I agree with Christine's take on Nora's relationship with her children. However I would like to bring up the very end of the reading, "THE CHILDREN: No, Mama. But now will you play again?
NORA: No, not now.
THE CHILDREN: Oh, but Mama, you promised."
An obvious reason for Nora's refusal to continue playing with her children is that Krogstad's visit has shaken her. However, I also think that Nora has put on her "grown-up business" face for Krogstad and is unable to switch back over to the loving mother figure so quickly. I know that she loves her children even when she's not playing with them, but I think that this just exemplifies what we were talking about in class about Nora enjoying different sides of life.
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Well Krogstad says that she's committed a crime of forgery because she signed her father's name on a legal contract. Krogstad found out because she wrote the date of October 2 when her father actually died three days before. Nora thinks the court would forgive her because she did what she's done out of kindness and love for her husband. "I did it out of love", she says on page 1011. This makes her seem very naive and maybe even a bit childish.
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and I also definitely agree with Catherine in that Nora is able to put her serious face on when needed.
p.s. my word verification is "fierse"
hahaha christine :)
4. I think Nora's explanation, that a court of law would forgive her for her forgery because her motive was good, reinforces things we know about her. She really is a good, loving person, and she is capable of taking things into her own hands to bring about change she wants, the way she wants it. She is also, though, out of touch with reality. She says "I don't know much about laws, but I'm sure that somewhere in the books these things are allowed." Like, sweetie, you need to know about laws if you're going to be dealing with issues like this. In a way, it's very cool that she feels so powerful and acts on what she thinks she needs to do. But it is childish and may have a negative outcome.
3. Krogstand tells Nora that she has committed the crime of forgery. Krogstand only tells her this after she does not comply with his demanding for her to influence her husband not to fire Krogstand and put Mrs. Linde in his place. Then Krogstand tells Nora she has committed forgery by interrogating her on the date of her father's death and the date that that note was signed.
"This is the curious thing; that your father co-signed the note for your loan three days after his death," (pg. 1010).
He makes her admit to her crime by asking her how her father could have signed the note if he had already died. Therefore Nora felt that she could no longer hold her lie, and admitted that she signed her father's name.
4. i think it reinforces her youthful quality. She doesnt really understand business or laws and seems to have lived a sheltered life regardless of almost losing her husband to death and having to raise money to go south to Italy with her family. That seems to her just like a little game she played. She seems rather naive in terms of her own knowledge base. How had she gone through life not knowing about the way laws work.
"This is the curious thing; that your father co-signed the note for your loan three days after his death," (pg. 1010).
this quote (sorry someone just used it) really exemplifies how Nora just doesn't understand that she cant just get away with whatever she wants like she does with the macaroons and expect people to believe her.
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In regards to Nora's relationship with her kids, she treats them more like they're on loan for her own enjoyment than her own kids. Nora tells the nanny 'what fun' it will be to dress her own kids, when usually the nanny does it for her. I think Nora enjoys playing the role of the 'motherly' figure when it is convenient for her. She takes care of her husband, when you think about it, more than she does her children. Which, may be, in a sense taking care of her family as a whole. It seems that if Torvald isn't happy, the whole foundation of this fragile, glass-like environment will shatter.
I think Nora's relationship with her children and her sometimes-mommy-dearest role can be related to the title of the play, "A Doll's House". Nora's never-fleeting cheerful nature seems almost two-dimensional and somewhat robotic and plastic, although - as we have read - she did provide for her husband and has contributed to her family. She seems desperate in her attempts to keep the family foundations from crumbling and I find her romanticism of 'saving' her husband a little naive, and she doesn't seem to be getting back from her husband what she is so tirelessly putting in, which I think is why her - and the rest of the family's - existence is so fragile: it is all a fantasy.
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Checking in...I agree with CJ and Laurel about Nora's naivety of the law is very childish and could potentially bring up some trouble for her because Krogstad certainly is not trying very hard to be a "nice guy".
1. Nora is a very loving mother to her children. She is very affectionate and a loyal mother. She is affectionate and speaks to them and relates to them on a level that they can understand and relate to. She says "let's" a lot which reinforces the unity between them. She also tries very hard to keep Torvald's illness from them, as to not worry them.
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I think it will be interesting to watch and see if there is a twist in the relationship of Nora and her children like there was one with her and Torvald. Perhaps she will have taken her "pet" status with them to an obsessive level almost like she did with Torvald. She enjoys being the absolute best mother/wife and then telling everyone about it, so she could very well do this soon.
Krogstad accuses Nora of forgery because when she asked him for a loan he gave her a sheet of paper that she and her father had to sign. She signed her fathers name for him because he was on his death bed and died. Unfortunately she signed the date three days after the day he died and Krogstad realized that her dad died three days earlier therefore could not have signed the slip.
He asks her if she signed it for him and she admits to it.
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4) I agree with everyone who has so far discussed this. Nora doesn't understand exactly how laws and such work, because she's too naive. She thinks that being a good person makes up for breaking any laws, but she doesn't understand exactly how the world works. After all, as Mr. Krogstad tries to tell her, he suffered the same way, and it nearly ruined his life.
"But I can tell you this: it was nothing more and nothing worse that I once did- and it wrecked my whole reputation."
We don't know what he has done yet, but we can sense that it was something similar in the sense that it doesn't matter what the motive was, as long as the outcome was the same, because that's how law works.
I agree with Kim about Nora's point of view on her kids and how she ideally likes to have them there for her, but just when she wants them. She doesn't normally dress them and is excited to dress them this one time. She may even be subconsciously using her children as mere toys
for her own pleasure and fun whenever she onlys feels like it. I also agree with what Kim is saying about how Nora doesn't want the family to fall apart. This is because she's not truly connected with any of them. She uses her kids and like Kim said she never gets the output she seeks from Torvald. So therefore, she doesn't really bond with anyone in the family, healthily enough to make a family at least. It may be that Nora doesn't like the many responsibilities that come from her kids and she only want to use them to play.
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Nora has a sweet, yet hands-off approach to mothering. She is very fond of her children, and plays with them energetically. She enjoys their company, and sees them as "little dolls." However, I don't think she understands the nitty-gritty aspects of parenting.
As soon as Krogstad arrives, she shoos the children back to Anne-Marie. It is not her responsibility to look after them, dress them, take them on outings, it is that of the nurse. She mentions doctor visits, but I do not get the impression that she is the primary caretaker. She is with them when it is convenient.
Nora's children love her, clearly, and can't wait to spend time with her. Anne-Marie mentions them missing her when she sends them away. It is a loving relationship, but they are more playmates than children to her.
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